Comments on: A Treatise Concerning a Possible Relationship Between the First Epistle of St. Paul to the Thessalonians and the First Epistle of St. Paul to the Corinthians, As Investigated by a Humble Sinner http://cryptotheology.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/a-treatise-concerning-a-possible-relationship-between-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-thessalonians-and-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-corinthians-as-investigated-by-a-humble-sinner/ ...as in a mirror dimly Mon, 07 Dec 2009 07:44:11 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Matthew http://cryptotheology.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/a-treatise-concerning-a-possible-relationship-between-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-thessalonians-and-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-corinthians-as-investigated-by-a-humble-sinner/#comment-498 Matthew Fri, 03 Oct 2008 20:11:57 +0000 http://cryptotheology.wordpress.com/?p=163#comment-498 Peter: That's an interesting thought - I have been wondering about that previous letter, but hadn't considered a similar connection to 1 Thessalonians. Roger: Ooh bold meme... I'll get onto it soon... if I dare! Peter: That’s an interesting thought – I have been wondering about that previous letter, but hadn’t considered a similar connection to 1 Thessalonians.

Roger: Ooh bold meme… I’ll get onto it soon… if I dare!

]]> By: Roger Mugs http://cryptotheology.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/a-treatise-concerning-a-possible-relationship-between-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-thessalonians-and-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-corinthians-as-investigated-by-a-humble-sinner/#comment-497 Roger Mugs Fri, 03 Oct 2008 10:27:07 +0000 http://cryptotheology.wordpress.com/?p=163#comment-497 matt, this is awesome... and exactly what i want to be reading on a 1 cor PhD dude's blog... p.s. tag http://www.theologer.com/2008/10/big-sin-meme.html matt, this is awesome… and exactly what i want to be reading on a 1 cor PhD dude’s blog…

p.s. tag http://www.theologer.com/2008/10/big-sin-meme.html

]]> By: Peter Kirk http://cryptotheology.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/a-treatise-concerning-a-possible-relationship-between-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-thessalonians-and-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-corinthians-as-investigated-by-a-humble-sinner/#comment-496 Peter Kirk Fri, 03 Oct 2008 10:13:17 +0000 http://cryptotheology.wordpress.com/?p=163#comment-496 It occurred to me that Paul's non-extant previous letter to the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 5:9) might have been more or less a copy of 1 Thessalonians, which he deliberately echoed when writing the extant letter. I'm not sure how that fits in with dating ideas. It occurred to me that Paul’s non-extant previous letter to the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 5:9) might have been more or less a copy of 1 Thessalonians, which he deliberately echoed when writing the extant letter. I’m not sure how that fits in with dating ideas.

]]> By: Matthew http://cryptotheology.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/a-treatise-concerning-a-possible-relationship-between-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-thessalonians-and-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-corinthians-as-investigated-by-a-humble-sinner/#comment-495 Matthew Fri, 03 Oct 2008 08:20:39 +0000 http://cryptotheology.wordpress.com/?p=163#comment-495 ...Hmm... we could call that "The Timothean Hypothesis" and all of a sudden it sounds respectable! Of course, one major difference between the two letters is the tone - in pretty much every issue, Paul is commending and encouraging/comforting the Thessalonians; but chiding and correcting the Corinthians. So I wonder if 1 Thessalonians might be thought of as a letter to a church that was, in Paul's view, largely maintaining his gospel & ethics; while 1 Corinthians might be thought of as a letter following a similar pattern but addressed to a church that was, in Paul's view, significantly departing from his gospel & ethics. For example: - The Thessalonians recognise the Pauline gospel as God's word rather than human words; the Corinthians are more interested in human words. - The Thessalonians are pursuing love of one another, and need to continue; the Corinthians are trying to compete with each other, and need to learn cruciform love (thus this section in 1 Cor is significantly longer - several chapters) - The Thessalonians are grieved over those who have fallen asleep and need to be assured; the Corinthians are proud and disdainful, and need to be convinced. …Hmm… we could call that “The Timothean Hypothesis” and all of a sudden it sounds respectable!

Of course, one major difference between the two letters is the tone – in pretty much every issue, Paul is commending and encouraging/comforting the Thessalonians; but chiding and correcting the Corinthians. So I wonder if 1 Thessalonians might be thought of as a letter to a church that was, in Paul’s view, largely maintaining his gospel & ethics; while 1 Corinthians might be thought of as a letter following a similar pattern but addressed to a church that was, in Paul’s view, significantly departing from his gospel & ethics.

For example:
- The Thessalonians recognise the Pauline gospel as God’s word rather than human words; the Corinthians are more interested in human words.
- The Thessalonians are pursuing love of one another, and need to continue; the Corinthians are trying to compete with each other, and need to learn cruciform love (thus this section in 1 Cor is significantly longer – several chapters)
- The Thessalonians are grieved over those who have fallen asleep and need to be assured; the Corinthians are proud and disdainful, and need to be convinced.

]]> By: dan http://cryptotheology.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/a-treatise-concerning-a-possible-relationship-between-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-thessalonians-and-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-corinthians-as-investigated-by-a-humble-sinner/#comment-494 dan Thu, 02 Oct 2008 23:05:42 +0000 http://cryptotheology.wordpress.com/?p=163#comment-494 I think it means that these two letters were not written by Paul, but were written by Timothy! Actually, I don't think that, but I found the post, and your subsequent comment, to be quite interesting. I think it means that these two letters were not written by Paul, but were written by Timothy!

Actually, I don’t think that, but I found the post, and your subsequent comment, to be quite interesting.

]]> By: Matthew http://cryptotheology.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/a-treatise-concerning-a-possible-relationship-between-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-thessalonians-and-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-corinthians-as-investigated-by-a-humble-sinner/#comment-493 Matthew Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:15:02 +0000 http://cryptotheology.wordpress.com/?p=163#comment-493 True... but I wonder if there's even more to it than that - a few things provoke me to wonder: - there are terms and phrases that are strikingly similar, in similar contexts (and which don't appear elsewhere in Paul) - No other NT letter follows this pattern of topics (apart from the "ethical" section) - Certain themes are covered in both of these letters, but nowhere else in Paul (eg. the problem of those who have 'fallen asleep' in relation to those who are still alive at the time of the eschaton) So what am I saying? That one is a copy of the other? No; I'm simply wondering whether Paul followed the usual convention of keeping professionally-made copies of his own dispatched letters; and - again, as was the practice of contemporary letter writers such as Seneca - made use of his prior material in subsequent letters. 1 Thessalonians was probably written from Corinth; and it's possible that Paul revisited this letter when engaging with the Corinthians via letter 5 years later. Of course, this is by no means certain - but perhaps it's worth pondering... True… but I wonder if there’s even more to it than that – a few things provoke me to wonder:
- there are terms and phrases that are strikingly similar, in similar contexts (and which don’t appear elsewhere in Paul)
- No other NT letter follows this pattern of topics (apart from the “ethical” section)
- Certain themes are covered in both of these letters, but nowhere else in Paul (eg. the problem of those who have ‘fallen asleep’ in relation to those who are still alive at the time of the eschaton)

So what am I saying? That one is a copy of the other? No; I’m simply wondering whether Paul followed the usual convention of keeping professionally-made copies of his own dispatched letters; and – again, as was the practice of contemporary letter writers such as Seneca – made use of his prior material in subsequent letters. 1 Thessalonians was probably written from Corinth; and it’s possible that Paul revisited this letter when engaging with the Corinthians via letter 5 years later.

Of course, this is by no means certain – but perhaps it’s worth pondering…

]]> By: Peter Kirk http://cryptotheology.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/a-treatise-concerning-a-possible-relationship-between-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-thessalonians-and-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-corinthians-as-investigated-by-a-humble-sinner/#comment-492 Peter Kirk Thu, 02 Oct 2008 17:55:49 +0000 http://cryptotheology.wordpress.com/?p=163#comment-492 Clearly the same person wrote both in similar contexts. Is that a revolutionary deduction? Umm - no! ;-) Clearly the same person wrote both in similar contexts. Is that a revolutionary deduction? Umm – no! ;-)

]]> By: Matthew http://cryptotheology.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/a-treatise-concerning-a-possible-relationship-between-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-thessalonians-and-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-corinthians-as-investigated-by-a-humble-sinner/#comment-491 Matthew Thu, 02 Oct 2008 17:42:01 +0000 http://cryptotheology.wordpress.com/?p=163#comment-491 Ja.. ich auch! Ja.. ich auch!

]]> By: Peter http://cryptotheology.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/a-treatise-concerning-a-possible-relationship-between-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-thessalonians-and-the-first-epistle-of-st-paul-to-the-corinthians-as-investigated-by-a-humble-sinner/#comment-490 Peter Thu, 02 Oct 2008 16:01:04 +0000 http://cryptotheology.wordpress.com/?p=163#comment-490 ἀπεκδέχομαι τό λοιπόν. ἀπεκδέχομαι τό λοιπόν.

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